I respect people’s opinion on this, but Selma was not good enough to earn more nominations. The fact that it was historically inaccurate did not help it’s cause either.
^^
I’ll say it again and again. Chadwick Boseman was “robbed” by not gettig a nomination. Maybe he needs to become Oprah’s next BF.
I’ll say this again: Just because you make an “important” movie doesn’t mean it’s a great movie. i don’t think Selma was that great. I think Ava has a lot more directing to do.
I respect people’s opinion on this, but Selma was not good enough to earn more nominations. The fact that it was historically inaccurate did not help it’s cause either.
In American Sniper, Chris Kyle stalks a terrorist called the Butcher in order to find a terrorist named Mustafa who Chris Kyle kills.
In reality: The Butcher doesn’t exist and Chris Kyle never encountered Mustafa . Kyle never shot Mustafa because he never saw him.
The 2000-yard shot in the movie when Kyle kills Mustafa is made up, invented for the movie. Cool though, wasn’t it?!
close to 45 minutes of American Sniper revolves around this fake heroic Mustafa bullshit. Historically accurate? No.
–“And Phantom, do you really believe that Catherine Zeta-Jones, Ron Howard and Colleen Atwood take a look at their ballots and think: Gee, I won’t vote for Gone Girl because it’s written by a woman!! How does she dare!”
— No, I don’t think that…I also don’t think two thirds of the the Academy voters are women as your random, inaccurate example attempts to suggest.
Nobody but writers get to choose who’s nominated for Best Adapted Screenplay. Only members of the Writers Branch of the Academy get to choose Best Screenplay nominees.
There are 378 writers in the writers branch. 19% of them are women.
I respect people’s opinion on this, but Selma was not good enough to earn more nominations. The fact that it was historically inaccurate did not help it’s cause either.
“And Phantom, do you really believe that Catherine Zeta-Jones, Ron Howard and Colleen Atwood take a look at their ballots and think: Gee, I won’t vote for Gone Girl because it’s written by a woman!! How does she dare!”
No, I don’t think that…I also don’t think two thirds of the the Academy voters are women as your random, inaccurate example attempts to suggest. If it were, then films with strong female leads would at least have a fair shot. If I remember correctly. according to official 2012 data, around 80% of the voters are white males over 60. Fact. Probably the reason why all 8 BP nominees this year are about men. ALL 8. Gone Girl had better reviews than half of those and (at the time of voting), considerably better BO than all of those. No BP nod. Wild also had better reviews and better Box Office than at least three of those. Wasn’t even considered. The critical consensus for Beyond the lights was on par with The Imitation Game and The Theory of Everything. Not even in the conversation. The Fault in Our Stars was a critically acclaimed international smash hit yet not a single mention during awards season.
My point is there were SEVERAL succesful films last year with strong female leads that could have been BP nominees but in the end they barely qualified as contenders let alone nominees…let alone winners. Coincidence ? No fucking way.
It’s really a shame that people like Lucas refuse to participate. He may think that he’s distanced himself from all that, but isn’t he partially responsible too, in the same way that people who refuse to vote in governmental elections are responsible?
Voting for awards isn’t the only thing that Academy members get to do. They also get to sponsor new members each year. In the four decades since Star Wars, Lucas could have sponsored 40 directors of color for membership, each of whom could also be sponsoring new members of their own.
Since the Academy doesn’t release vote counts, we don’t really know how close the director’s race was. Would Lucas’ one vote have made a difference? Would 41 votes have made a difference (him and the 40 directors he could have sponsored by now)?
Or maybe instead of complaining about it after the fact, Lucas could have hosted a screening or reception for the film, praising DuVernay & Oyelowo’s work. Whatever screener problems there may have been, I guarantee that people would show up for a party at George Lucas’ house!
Plus he’s big enough that if he wanted to he could probably get a seat on the governing board or the executive committee, and actually make POLICY around these issues. Instead he just barks and complains.
Yes it’s political, George, and decision are made by the people who show up. Be the change you want to see in the world.
”Gugu didn’t get a BAFTA nod. They didn’t care about the performance. They probably didn’t even know who she was.”
FYI: BAFTA nominated Gugu Mbatha-Raw for its EE Rising Star Award.
Her fellow nominees: Jack O’Connell, Shailene Woodley, Margot Robbie and Miles Teller.
I have to add this bit: I was listening to a radio host who’s a SAG and Oscar member. And he made the claim that he had screeners but didn’t have time to watch all the movies. So he bypassed marking some of the movies. He said that they send screeners all at once and expect people to watch them in a short amount of time, and he didn’t have time for that. He didn’t even know the TV noms, because he doesn’t watch TV. On some ballots he just checked off a name that was familiar.
THAT right there tells you how members vote.
One last thought: Seems to me that good producers and directors like Lucas have turned to animation more vs. drama, and TV. That tells me that they have given up on Hollywood too.
I’m shocked that Lucas is not a member of the Academy. Anyway, good for him calling a spade a spade. Especially about the Oscars being a “political campaign” and not an artistic endeavor. Tru dat!
^^
What we need is another Siskel and Ebert voice. Remember those critics? I watched them religiously and whatever they said I listened and I followed them to see those movies that were “little” and worthy. We don’t have a commanding voice in film criticism.
But beyond that, I just find that movies are not that compelling these days. I’ve said this before — I would go to the movies and watch great epic movies like Titanic and would be crying my eyes out. It was engaging. It was sweeping. It was cinematic. Forget the mushy story.
They just don’t make movies like that anymore, something that the audience can wrap its head and heart around. These little indie movies are good not great. Slumdog Millionaire was GREAT. Beasts of the southern wild was GREAT. They were emotional, they made you think.
The last two movies I saw like the above were last years 12 Yrs and Gravity. It was one of those few “wow” cinema moments. Yeh- Hollywood did good.
This year? Not so much.
IMO Guardians is overrated. Not a good movie. Not a good story (seen it before many times).
I will have to see Selma again to get a compass, but it didn’t hold my attention! Sorry, but it just didn’t, and what killed it for me were the Brits talking Southern accents; like Tom Wilkinson, Tim Roth and Carmen Ejobo. Sorry, but IMO they were miscast. Even the song, Glory, while musically beautiful, the rap section of the song by Common kills it for me. I keep thinking, why didn’t they just sing the song musically without the lyrics.
So to me — Selma missed it in so many ways.
I’m on my way to see American Sniper (got a feeling this is going to be another Hurt Locker), but the trailer looks good.
Saw Wild and loved it. Loved the performances.
That’s just IMO.
@ Ben,
why do you compare Oyelowo with actual nominee Cooper? Why not with the other great performance that got snubbed in the end? I didn’t read a single article about how unfair it is to Jake Gyllenhaal who was well ahead of Oyelowo precursor-wise (and you insisted on the importance of precursors). He won plenty of critics’ awards and he received all the crucial nominations, yet he was snubbed. But nobody is talking about that. Precursor-wise Fiennes was in the same league with Oyelowo, receiving Golden Globe, Critics’ Choice nominations and actually making the cut with BAFTA voters as well. Nobody is talking about that snub, even though Fiennes is one of the finest living British thespians. So what? It’s not as if Oyelowo failed to receive a nomination that he was a lock for. He didn’t receive a SAG nomination, he didn’t receive a BAFTA nomination. Did he win a major award? I don’t think so. Then what’s the deal here? The category had too many contenders, solid contenders with terrific work. And while Cooper wasn’t one of them (and I feel disgusted by this nomination for that flawed propaganda trash), Oyelowo wasn’t the only man snubbed. He wasn’t even the major snub.
And Phantom is talking about Gugu Mbatha-Raw and how her award-worthy performance got snubbed. Come on, open your eyes! Unknown actresses deliver award-worthy performances every year and the major of them fails to get a nomination by any of the major precursors. Gugu didn’t get a BAFTA nod. They didn’t care about the performance. They probably didn’t even know who she was, but not because of her skin but because these are the sad rules of the game.
And Phantom, do you really believe that Catherine Zeta-Jones, Ron Howard and Colleen Atwood take a look at their ballots and think: Gee, I won’t vote for Gone Girl because it’s written by a woman!! How does she dare!
The film has its fans but the film fails to move a lot of people. I myself find it ridiculous. Many people find it ridiculous. I know it works for your argument, but its greatness is subjective and not a fact.
Stay calm, all! We haven’t even heard of the guilds.
How snarky to take a cheap shot at Lucas. Especially after he put $100 million of his own money to make ”Red Tails,” an African-American drama he championed. And let’s not forget: The guy cast James Earl Jones to voice Darth Vader in ”Star Wars”; picked Billy Dee Williams to play Lando Calrissian, and Samuel L. Jackson as Mace Windu. Plus, Lupita Nyong’o will be starring in the next ”Star Wars” movie.
And maybe you missed it, but there was a storm of racial controversy when the latest ”Star Wars” trailer showed a glimpse of a black man (John Boyega) in a stormtrooper uniform. One such comment online: ”Disney has no shame. Using the Star Wars platform to push the Race-mixing, ‘diversity is good’ agenda. I have officially resigned my Star wars fanboyism. To Hell with all involved with this.” Boyega’s comeback: ”Get used to it!”
How noble of Lucas, he of such racially sensitive portrayals like Jar-Jar Binks (a space version of Stepin Fechit) and the Trade Federation Aliens (or rather, Trade Federation Asians, amirite?).
To everyone saying “BUT 12 Years a Slave!” Please remember that there have been 86 Best Picture winners and that is the one (ONE!) of 86 that has won. So what, that makes up for everything now? We rewarded a black film now let’s get back to white culture?
Kim, I agree completely. It’s not easy for a film that opens so late in the year, or in this case early the next year, to gather enough support from the Academy in order for it to get the kind of recognition most feel it deserves. Campaigning for a film takes money and time. Time being the deciding factor, here. ‘Boyhood’ has all the momentum right now because it was an early release. ‘Birdman’ was much later, but not too late to make the profound statement with voters that it has. I don’t know what’s in store for us this year, but if there are films about Black life, you can bet that the filmmakers and the studios will consider this year’s Oscar snub of ‘Selma’ as a lesson-learned and start campaigning much sooner.
I have not seen Selma, nor Top Five, nor Belle or Beyond the Lights. I have not seen Foxcatcher, nor Inherent Vice In fact, there are several films I have not seen in the Foreign Language Category or Documentary Category. Award recognition shouldn’t judge a film’s merit nor use it as a marketing tool. Using awards recognition to market a film actually is the wrong way of going at it. Word of mouth, public recognition, the internet, etc is what really makes it it stand on its own two feet.
in awe of Warner this morning. Sad they didn’t handle one of the better films.
Opening weekend doesn’t have much to do with the film itself. it’s entirely PR. Warner invested in an opening for their movie. A weak hand but a very well played game. Which stinks, of course… to Lucas’ point.
The crowd that love Sniper hate King. We get a replay of the white riot we got last election day. The Academy is so goddam stupid.
What bothers me is that so many people are tweeting about the lack of diversity at the Oscars and within the industry, yet whenever a movie comes out that features diversity, it underperforms at the box office. Selma isn’t making as much money as it should be. Top Five didn’t make as much money as it should have. Wild isn’t bringing people into the theaters. Beyond the Lights didn’t sell a lot of tickets. Meanwhile, American Sniper and Taken 3 break records.
I understand that Hollywood should be making more of these movies, but if audiences want to see them, they should be showing up in droves in order to send a message. It’s easy to send a tweet, but who among these people actually paid to see Selma or Top Five or Wild or Beyond the Lights?
These movies do relatively well given their budgets, but still, if so many people wanted to see them, wouldn’t they be making more money? At the end of the day, you can’t blame Hollywood for making what sells.
I think Ava D and David O should have been nominated for best director and best actor but, what hurt them was the late release of the movie and the screener issue. Look at 12 years a slave it played the film festival circuit and was released in October 2013 giving it time to resonate with audiences and bill strong support with the black community and Selma didn’t do that maybe it should have been released this year. Movies like this need strong minority support not just critics support. Ava and David has handled this situation with class and dignity and I hope they get more opportunities in the future.
George Lucas makes a good point. Back in 1977/1978, his groundbreaking film ‘Star Wars’ was considered by the majority to be the first Sci-Fi/Fantasy film to win Best Picture and Best Director. It didn’t. 20th Century Fox campaigned the crap out of that movie, too. Instead, Best Picture went to Woody Allen’s ‘Annie Hall.’ ‘Raiders of the Lost Ark’, one of the greatest films of all time, didn’t win Best Picture or Best Director either. It wasn’t until ‘The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King’ that the norm was defied. And it hasn’t been defied again, since. Another instance that sticks out for me is when Sigourney Weaver was nominated for Best Actress in ‘Aliens.’ Didn’t win, but a terrific performance. Back in 1999/2000, I would have chosen ‘The Insider’ over ‘The Cider House Rules’ for Best Adapted Screenplay, and Haley Joel Osment over Michael Caine for Best Supporting Actor. But that just goes to show that opinions are like noses: Everyone has them. I also would have chosen ‘Almost Famous’ over ‘Chocolat’ for one of the Best Picture slots the following year. Often, the public and the Academy don’t share the same view of what constitutes a Best Picture candidate. But the thing is that Academy members do this for a living. They know how movies are made and how to spot the various aspects of a film that make that particular part of it stand out. The majority of viewers are people who don’t care about the details and just want to be entertained. I’m sure the public would be very happy if movies like ‘The Transporter’, or ‘Ride Along’, or ‘Neighbors’ were getting the same kind of love from the Academy as ‘Gravity’ and ‘LOTR’ did. But unless the Academy is comprised of the average viewers, it’s not gonna happen. I just sit back and enjoy the ride. To me, the Oscars is a fun annual event that recognizes films from all over the world. I was surprised and pleased to see that ‘Leviathan’ made the Best Foreign Language Film slot. What’s cool about that is Russia is not known for its filmmaking prowess. This would be quite a shot in the arm for Russia if that film won (I voted for it).
It upsets me a lot that the film didn’t get the nominations it deserves. But I’m afraid to say I wouldn’t know if I’d vote for it. The direction of Birdman, Boyhood, Foxcatcher and The Grand Budapest Hotel were definitely superior than Selma for me. That number 5 position is very tricky. I see the argument of racism, because there really should be more support for Ava and her movie in that category, especially considering it’s her first big film, but, yeah, I don’t know. I’d vote for Nightcrawler or Whiplash.
That Best Actor category was always meant to be a killer one. I didn’t like American Sniper, but damn, Bradley Cooper sure deserved that nomination. There were 10 nomination-worthy actors in that category, and I’m sorry, David Oweloyo was top 8, not top 5 (can’t rank that category plausibly), anyone that gets left out, it’s understandable.
When aren’t there some undeserving nominations and some undeserved snubs? Lots of good movies didn’t get one nomination, let alone a Best Picture nod. Congratulations to “Selma.” It joins a list of very distinguished nominees over the years.
PHANTOM and ART are absolutely right. Nobody is saying Oyelowo and DuVernay were stronger frontrunners and more critically acclaimed than Boyhood. But they certainly were stronger frontrunners and more critically acclaimed than Bradley Cooper (no precursors!) and Bennett Miller (no precursors!) among other nominees. In judging how the Academy will vote, one must go by precedent, and you’ve got to look at the precursors. Sure there are always some upsets, but why is it that they are almost always at the expense of minorities, people of color in general, women, gays, etc., in favor of less acclaimed white men, well-known in the industry, and in general, but when its not supposed to be there year. I love Laura Dern, but she really didn’t do much in Wild, other than give a nice performance that an accomplished actress is supposed to. But sorry, she wasn’t in the same league as Carmen Ejogo. And Robert Duvall is a great actor, but The Judge was a second tier film (at best) with a phoned in performance. Couldn’t they look past the usual old white man suspect and think about nominating Riv Ahmed or Tony Revolori? The point is, as Phantom said, some of these upsets were at the expense of perceived possible winners, and almost always in favor of popular white men. The pattern is just too damning to ignore. I would have thought by now everyone would have seen the Academy’s true colors with the Brokeback snub. People always make excuses for them, but with such a poor record, isn’t it time that more people take them to task? I am all for honoring the so-called best. Admittedly, that is not always readily apparent, but most of the time, they don’t even come close. If they were a little less conservative in politics and social causes, their record in rewarding the finest art would be significantly greater. To me, a perfect example is the fake-liberalism of rewarding the ok Driving Miss Daisy (black man servant) at the expense of not-even-nominated Do the Right Thing, now considered one of the 50 or so greatest American films, but also considered pretty darn great even in 1989 by the critics/precursors (Los Angeles Crix Best Picture, NY runner-up, etc.), yet there was that year’s worst snub…so they could nominate Dead Poet’s Society instead? C’mon.
I am appalled that Jake Gyllenhaal did not receive a nomination because he is in my view better than at least two of the ones nominated in that category. But of course no one cares because he’s another white male excluded in favor of other white males.
You missed my point entirely. The ones I mentioned shouldn’t have been nominated because they are black or female, they should have been nominated because up until the last minute the industry considered them some of the year’s best and that didn’t translate into Oscar love. We will never know why…that does not mean we can’t ask that question, though.
Johan
You also missed my point. I didn’t say Oyelowo and DuVernay were frontrunners, I said they SHOULD have been based on reviews alone, according to those the film is a modern masterpiece and the performance is one for the ages. On the other hand, Gone Girl was actually backed up by precursors for a BP nod and it didn’t happen. I’m not necessarily saying they were out to get the female movie star turned succesful producer, I’m saying they clearly had no trouble ignoring her while giving a BP nod to a male movie star. Yes, Wild was no BP contender but it was the kind of arthouse hit that was supposed to help her case with Gone Girl in BP. It didn’t. And make no mistake the Gone Girl BP snub WAS a big one.
Come on Phantom, this is an Oscarwatching site, we’re all somewhat versed in predicting Oscars. You’re saying DuVernay was a frontrunner over Linklater? Oyelowo over Redmayne and Keaton? You’re not fooling anyone on this site.
I also think you’re overestimating how much thought voters put into this if you think Gone Girl and Wild weren’t nominated because of Witherspoon as a producer. The whole voting body is allowed to vote for Best Picture, I’m sure the majority didn’t even know Witherspoon produced Gone Girl.
Like Sasha said its much bigger than Selma. America is undergoing turmoil re: grand jury failures in police matters, social inequities etc.. This is the most prolonged period of street protest since ironically the days of King. Then comes this move Selma and it ranks huge with critics. Labeled oscar frontrunner. Wow-a film directed by a AA woman and AA cast might win it all! Then the media releases hatchets on the film-a film btw which is seen with great pride by many young folks, minorities and others. The msm wont leave it alone. Then the academy snub Selma-ignoring its dir and actor. They nominate it for best pic and song-it felt like a token, one folks get bc have seen it before! This all at time when many feel the system no longer works. Your kid gets shot by a cop an d cant get justice. You cant vote if u cant pay the fee for voter id in texas etc. And in comes Selma-the film on everyone’s lips-hitting screens at the perfect emotive moment in the nation. And some of us feel after 12 yrs won last yr it can be done again. Then the door slammed shut this yr with all white actors nominated and women shut out. So Selma is more-and fast becoming a symbol of what is wrong on another level. Even Maureen Dowd in NYT tonight-the one who hit Lincoln over the CT vote in the film-is going after Selma. You beat up on something long enough in times like this u get mighty suspicious. Id expect Selma to be on the lips of all come feb 22nd-the most awkward awrd ceremony may ever see.. this snub is taking on a life on its and its no surprise..
Phantom, it is the point. Who says DuVernay had to be nominated? Because she is female and African American? The sentiment is that DuVernay would have become the first African American female director nominated. It sounds to me it is based on her gender and ethnicity rather than the merit of the film.
Sasha, it is bigger than just best picture nomination because there is a lack of best directing and acting nod? What about Paul Thomas Anderson? He wasn’t nominated for Best Directing, one can argue and say he was SNUBBED as well but nobody cares because he is not first black female. DGA is not racist, AMPAS is not racist for not nominating Duvernay, they nominated Selma for Best Picture, and obviously, that is not GOOD enough. For Lucas? He is just jealous because he has not won an Oscar.
I bet name recognition and familiarity are part of it. I imagine it’s far easier for Oscar voters (read: 94% white) to mark their ballots for past Oscar winners, like Robert Duvall and Meryl Streep, than The-Guy-Who-Played-Martin-Luther-King-and-Has-A-Name-I-Can’t-Pronounce. At least, David Oyelowo had received some precursor nominations from the Golden Globes and the Broadcast Film Critics Association. He should’ve been on their radar. But instead the Academy voted for Bradley Cooper and Laura Dern, neither of whom received any major precursor nods, but were already known to them as past Oscar nominees.
Eh..I agree that it’s political, but do you really think Selma would have been anything but nominated across the board had they not rushed the movie into the Oscar race without doing any guild campaigning? If they’d pulled the movie out of this season and put it into next, it might’ve cleaned up. But they rushed it, and it backfired.
Now is it stupid that a worthy movie can’t enter at the last second and not be considered? Yes. But I don’t view this as the Academy singling out Selma because they voted 12 Years a Slave last year. I see this as maybe the membership punishing the movie for not playing the same game as everyone else during the guild season. It’s stupid, but I don’t see it being about racial politics in this case.
Selma got two nominations when it was great enough to get 8 including Best Actor (a black man) and Best Director (a black woman). Both were supposed to be not only nominees but frontrunners in their respective categories.
Gone Girl got one nomination when it was great enough to get 6 including Best Picture (a white woman) and Best Adapted Screenplay (a white woman). Again, the screenwriter was not only supposed to be a nominee, but a frontrunner. And the producer, who also happens to be a movie star (Reese Witherspoon) delivered not one but TWO well-received moneymakers last year but the Academy opted against recognising her stellar work as a producer…yet they had no problem throwing a Best Picture nomination to a MALE movie star (Bradley Cooper).
Gugu Mbatha-Raw (a black woman) had the kind of brilliant breakthrough year Oscar dreams are made of, she had her Pride & Prejudice (=Belle) and her La Vie En Rose (=Beyond the Lights) all in one year. She is also a beautiful, classically trained (RADA) actress with impressive stage roots (Ophelia on Broadway etc.). She wasn’t even in the conversation. Both her films received good/great reviews…and both were not only headlined, but also written and directed by black women.
Bottom line : The problem isn’t that they weren’t nominated. The problem is that they were great enough to be seriously considered for the actual WIN and they didn’t even receive the nominations. The most shocking snubs : a black female director, a black male actor, a white female producer, a white female screenwriter. Black people and women. Coincidence ?
P.S. A point could be made that the Academy also discriminates against foreign language performances (duh) and as wonderful as it is that Cotillard made the cut, I can’t help but wonder that voters may have made that happen simply because their snobbish prejudice against comedic actresses with television background (triple red flag ?) is even bigger than their prejudice against the foreign performances.
I’m shocked that Lucas is not a member of the Academy. Anyway, good for him calling a spade a spade. Especially about the Oscars being a “political campaign” and not an artistic endeavor. Tru dat!
George Lucas clearly knows the bias of Hollywood firsthand, especially with his experience on making ”Red Tails,” his 2012 salute to the heroic Tuskegee Airmen. It starred Cuba Gooding Jr. and David Oyelowo in a story about the World War II pilots, and was directed by Anthony Hemingway, a rare black man who got to head a big-budget movie. Even with Lucas’ muscle behind it, he had the hardest time getting it released. Lucas: ”It’s because it’s an all-black movie. There’s no major white roles in it at all…I showed it to all of [the studios] and they said no. We don’t know how to market a movie like this.”
Ultimately, Lucas put $58 millon of his money into the movie and spent another $35 million for its distribution.
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I respect people’s opinion on this, but Selma was not good enough to earn more nominations. The fact that it was historically inaccurate did not help it’s cause either.
^^
I’ll say it again and again. Chadwick Boseman was “robbed” by not gettig a nomination. Maybe he needs to become Oprah’s next BF.
I’ll say this again: Just because you make an “important” movie doesn’t mean it’s a great movie. i don’t think Selma was that great. I think Ava has a lot more directing to do.
I respect people’s opinion on this, but Selma was not good enough to earn more nominations. The fact that it was historically inaccurate did not help it’s cause either.
In American Sniper, Chris Kyle stalks a terrorist called the Butcher in order to find a terrorist named Mustafa who Chris Kyle kills.
In reality: The Butcher doesn’t exist and Chris Kyle never encountered Mustafa . Kyle never shot Mustafa because he never saw him.
The 2000-yard shot in the movie when Kyle kills Mustafa is made up, invented for the movie. Cool though, wasn’t it?!
close to 45 minutes of American Sniper revolves around this fake heroic Mustafa bullshit. Historically accurate? No.
Phantom, are there rules that the Oscars need to do what public tells them to do? It is all subjective when it comes to nominations.
–“And Phantom, do you really believe that Catherine Zeta-Jones, Ron Howard and Colleen Atwood take a look at their ballots and think: Gee, I won’t vote for Gone Girl because it’s written by a woman!! How does she dare!”
— No, I don’t think that…I also don’t think two thirds of the the Academy voters are women as your random, inaccurate example attempts to suggest.
Nobody but writers get to choose who’s nominated for Best Adapted Screenplay. Only members of the Writers Branch of the Academy get to choose Best Screenplay nominees.
There are 378 writers in the writers branch. 19% of them are women.
I respect people’s opinion on this, but Selma was not good enough to earn more nominations. The fact that it was historically inaccurate did not help it’s cause either.
Wow the hate to Cotillard for get Oscar nomination when she is amazing in Two Days, One Night, actually better than favourite Julianne Moore.
Zooey
“And Phantom, do you really believe that Catherine Zeta-Jones, Ron Howard and Colleen Atwood take a look at their ballots and think: Gee, I won’t vote for Gone Girl because it’s written by a woman!! How does she dare!”
No, I don’t think that…I also don’t think two thirds of the the Academy voters are women as your random, inaccurate example attempts to suggest. If it were, then films with strong female leads would at least have a fair shot. If I remember correctly. according to official 2012 data, around 80% of the voters are white males over 60. Fact. Probably the reason why all 8 BP nominees this year are about men. ALL 8. Gone Girl had better reviews than half of those and (at the time of voting), considerably better BO than all of those. No BP nod. Wild also had better reviews and better Box Office than at least three of those. Wasn’t even considered. The critical consensus for Beyond the lights was on par with The Imitation Game and The Theory of Everything. Not even in the conversation. The Fault in Our Stars was a critically acclaimed international smash hit yet not a single mention during awards season.
My point is there were SEVERAL succesful films last year with strong female leads that could have been BP nominees but in the end they barely qualified as contenders let alone nominees…let alone winners. Coincidence ? No fucking way.
Thanks Ryan! I’m not able to comment as often as I’d like, but when I do I try to do my best!
NeverTooEarlyMP
holy whoa, what a great comment, what a smart tight line of reasoning. cheers.
It’s really a shame that people like Lucas refuse to participate. He may think that he’s distanced himself from all that, but isn’t he partially responsible too, in the same way that people who refuse to vote in governmental elections are responsible?
Voting for awards isn’t the only thing that Academy members get to do. They also get to sponsor new members each year. In the four decades since Star Wars, Lucas could have sponsored 40 directors of color for membership, each of whom could also be sponsoring new members of their own.
Since the Academy doesn’t release vote counts, we don’t really know how close the director’s race was. Would Lucas’ one vote have made a difference? Would 41 votes have made a difference (him and the 40 directors he could have sponsored by now)?
Or maybe instead of complaining about it after the fact, Lucas could have hosted a screening or reception for the film, praising DuVernay & Oyelowo’s work. Whatever screener problems there may have been, I guarantee that people would show up for a party at George Lucas’ house!
Plus he’s big enough that if he wanted to he could probably get a seat on the governing board or the executive committee, and actually make POLICY around these issues. Instead he just barks and complains.
Yes it’s political, George, and decision are made by the people who show up. Be the change you want to see in the world.
”Gugu didn’t get a BAFTA nod. They didn’t care about the performance. They probably didn’t even know who she was.”
FYI: BAFTA nominated Gugu Mbatha-Raw for its EE Rising Star Award.
Her fellow nominees: Jack O’Connell, Shailene Woodley, Margot Robbie and Miles Teller.
The next time the “old rich white male” argument is brought up, just remember that the richest, whitest of them all is standing up Selma 😉
I have to add this bit: I was listening to a radio host who’s a SAG and Oscar member. And he made the claim that he had screeners but didn’t have time to watch all the movies. So he bypassed marking some of the movies. He said that they send screeners all at once and expect people to watch them in a short amount of time, and he didn’t have time for that. He didn’t even know the TV noms, because he doesn’t watch TV. On some ballots he just checked off a name that was familiar.
THAT right there tells you how members vote.
One last thought: Seems to me that good producers and directors like Lucas have turned to animation more vs. drama, and TV. That tells me that they have given up on Hollywood too.
I’m shocked that Lucas is not a member of the Academy. Anyway, good for him calling a spade a spade. Especially about the Oscars being a “political campaign” and not an artistic endeavor. Tru dat!
^^
What we need is another Siskel and Ebert voice. Remember those critics? I watched them religiously and whatever they said I listened and I followed them to see those movies that were “little” and worthy. We don’t have a commanding voice in film criticism.
But beyond that, I just find that movies are not that compelling these days. I’ve said this before — I would go to the movies and watch great epic movies like Titanic and would be crying my eyes out. It was engaging. It was sweeping. It was cinematic. Forget the mushy story.
They just don’t make movies like that anymore, something that the audience can wrap its head and heart around. These little indie movies are good not great. Slumdog Millionaire was GREAT. Beasts of the southern wild was GREAT. They were emotional, they made you think.
The last two movies I saw like the above were last years 12 Yrs and Gravity. It was one of those few “wow” cinema moments. Yeh- Hollywood did good.
This year? Not so much.
IMO Guardians is overrated. Not a good movie. Not a good story (seen it before many times).
I will have to see Selma again to get a compass, but it didn’t hold my attention! Sorry, but it just didn’t, and what killed it for me were the Brits talking Southern accents; like Tom Wilkinson, Tim Roth and Carmen Ejobo. Sorry, but IMO they were miscast. Even the song, Glory, while musically beautiful, the rap section of the song by Common kills it for me. I keep thinking, why didn’t they just sing the song musically without the lyrics.
So to me — Selma missed it in so many ways.
I’m on my way to see American Sniper (got a feeling this is going to be another Hurt Locker), but the trailer looks good.
Saw Wild and loved it. Loved the performances.
That’s just IMO.
@ Ben,
why do you compare Oyelowo with actual nominee Cooper? Why not with the other great performance that got snubbed in the end? I didn’t read a single article about how unfair it is to Jake Gyllenhaal who was well ahead of Oyelowo precursor-wise (and you insisted on the importance of precursors). He won plenty of critics’ awards and he received all the crucial nominations, yet he was snubbed. But nobody is talking about that. Precursor-wise Fiennes was in the same league with Oyelowo, receiving Golden Globe, Critics’ Choice nominations and actually making the cut with BAFTA voters as well. Nobody is talking about that snub, even though Fiennes is one of the finest living British thespians. So what? It’s not as if Oyelowo failed to receive a nomination that he was a lock for. He didn’t receive a SAG nomination, he didn’t receive a BAFTA nomination. Did he win a major award? I don’t think so. Then what’s the deal here? The category had too many contenders, solid contenders with terrific work. And while Cooper wasn’t one of them (and I feel disgusted by this nomination for that flawed propaganda trash), Oyelowo wasn’t the only man snubbed. He wasn’t even the major snub.
And Phantom is talking about Gugu Mbatha-Raw and how her award-worthy performance got snubbed. Come on, open your eyes! Unknown actresses deliver award-worthy performances every year and the major of them fails to get a nomination by any of the major precursors. Gugu didn’t get a BAFTA nod. They didn’t care about the performance. They probably didn’t even know who she was, but not because of her skin but because these are the sad rules of the game.
And Phantom, do you really believe that Catherine Zeta-Jones, Ron Howard and Colleen Atwood take a look at their ballots and think: Gee, I won’t vote for Gone Girl because it’s written by a woman!! How does she dare!
The film has its fans but the film fails to move a lot of people. I myself find it ridiculous. Many people find it ridiculous. I know it works for your argument, but its greatness is subjective and not a fact.
Stay calm, all! We haven’t even heard of the guilds.
Larrry, don’t say things that make you sound uninformed.
For real.
” It sounds to me it is based on her gender and ethnicity rather than the merit of the film.”
RT: 99% positive
RT audience score: 89% positive (28,715 ratings)
Metacritic: 89
Larrry, don’t say things that make you sound uninformed.
How snarky to take a cheap shot at Lucas. Especially after he put $100 million of his own money to make ”Red Tails,” an African-American drama he championed. And let’s not forget: The guy cast James Earl Jones to voice Darth Vader in ”Star Wars”; picked Billy Dee Williams to play Lando Calrissian, and Samuel L. Jackson as Mace Windu. Plus, Lupita Nyong’o will be starring in the next ”Star Wars” movie.
And maybe you missed it, but there was a storm of racial controversy when the latest ”Star Wars” trailer showed a glimpse of a black man (John Boyega) in a stormtrooper uniform. One such comment online: ”Disney has no shame. Using the Star Wars platform to push the Race-mixing, ‘diversity is good’ agenda. I have officially resigned my Star wars fanboyism. To Hell with all involved with this.” Boyega’s comeback: ”Get used to it!”
Lucas should do Redtails as a TV show. It would be a winner.
How noble of Lucas, he of such racially sensitive portrayals like Jar-Jar Binks (a space version of Stepin Fechit) and the Trade Federation Aliens (or rather, Trade Federation Asians, amirite?).
To everyone saying “BUT 12 Years a Slave!” Please remember that there have been 86 Best Picture winners and that is the one (ONE!) of 86 that has won. So what, that makes up for everything now? We rewarded a black film now let’s get back to white culture?
Kim, I agree completely. It’s not easy for a film that opens so late in the year, or in this case early the next year, to gather enough support from the Academy in order for it to get the kind of recognition most feel it deserves. Campaigning for a film takes money and time. Time being the deciding factor, here. ‘Boyhood’ has all the momentum right now because it was an early release. ‘Birdman’ was much later, but not too late to make the profound statement with voters that it has. I don’t know what’s in store for us this year, but if there are films about Black life, you can bet that the filmmakers and the studios will consider this year’s Oscar snub of ‘Selma’ as a lesson-learned and start campaigning much sooner.
I have not seen Selma, nor Top Five, nor Belle or Beyond the Lights. I have not seen Foxcatcher, nor Inherent Vice In fact, there are several films I have not seen in the Foreign Language Category or Documentary Category. Award recognition shouldn’t judge a film’s merit nor use it as a marketing tool. Using awards recognition to market a film actually is the wrong way of going at it. Word of mouth, public recognition, the internet, etc is what really makes it it stand on its own two feet.
The original trilogy should’ve won best picture. It was game changing saga.
in awe of Warner this morning. Sad they didn’t handle one of the better films.
Opening weekend doesn’t have much to do with the film itself. it’s entirely PR. Warner invested in an opening for their movie. A weak hand but a very well played game. Which stinks, of course… to Lucas’ point.
The crowd that love Sniper hate King. We get a replay of the white riot we got last election day. The Academy is so goddam stupid.
What bothers me is that so many people are tweeting about the lack of diversity at the Oscars and within the industry, yet whenever a movie comes out that features diversity, it underperforms at the box office. Selma isn’t making as much money as it should be. Top Five didn’t make as much money as it should have. Wild isn’t bringing people into the theaters. Beyond the Lights didn’t sell a lot of tickets. Meanwhile, American Sniper and Taken 3 break records.
I understand that Hollywood should be making more of these movies, but if audiences want to see them, they should be showing up in droves in order to send a message. It’s easy to send a tweet, but who among these people actually paid to see Selma or Top Five or Wild or Beyond the Lights?
These movies do relatively well given their budgets, but still, if so many people wanted to see them, wouldn’t they be making more money? At the end of the day, you can’t blame Hollywood for making what sells.
I think Ava D and David O should have been nominated for best director and best actor but, what hurt them was the late release of the movie and the screener issue. Look at 12 years a slave it played the film festival circuit and was released in October 2013 giving it time to resonate with audiences and bill strong support with the black community and Selma didn’t do that maybe it should have been released this year. Movies like this need strong minority support not just critics support. Ava and David has handled this situation with class and dignity and I hope they get more opportunities in the future.
“It’s a political campaign”.
True. But if it’s true this year, it was true last year for 12 Years A Slave.
George Lucas makes a good point. Back in 1977/1978, his groundbreaking film ‘Star Wars’ was considered by the majority to be the first Sci-Fi/Fantasy film to win Best Picture and Best Director. It didn’t. 20th Century Fox campaigned the crap out of that movie, too. Instead, Best Picture went to Woody Allen’s ‘Annie Hall.’ ‘Raiders of the Lost Ark’, one of the greatest films of all time, didn’t win Best Picture or Best Director either. It wasn’t until ‘The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King’ that the norm was defied. And it hasn’t been defied again, since. Another instance that sticks out for me is when Sigourney Weaver was nominated for Best Actress in ‘Aliens.’ Didn’t win, but a terrific performance. Back in 1999/2000, I would have chosen ‘The Insider’ over ‘The Cider House Rules’ for Best Adapted Screenplay, and Haley Joel Osment over Michael Caine for Best Supporting Actor. But that just goes to show that opinions are like noses: Everyone has them. I also would have chosen ‘Almost Famous’ over ‘Chocolat’ for one of the Best Picture slots the following year. Often, the public and the Academy don’t share the same view of what constitutes a Best Picture candidate. But the thing is that Academy members do this for a living. They know how movies are made and how to spot the various aspects of a film that make that particular part of it stand out. The majority of viewers are people who don’t care about the details and just want to be entertained. I’m sure the public would be very happy if movies like ‘The Transporter’, or ‘Ride Along’, or ‘Neighbors’ were getting the same kind of love from the Academy as ‘Gravity’ and ‘LOTR’ did. But unless the Academy is comprised of the average viewers, it’s not gonna happen. I just sit back and enjoy the ride. To me, the Oscars is a fun annual event that recognizes films from all over the world. I was surprised and pleased to see that ‘Leviathan’ made the Best Foreign Language Film slot. What’s cool about that is Russia is not known for its filmmaking prowess. This would be quite a shot in the arm for Russia if that film won (I voted for it).
It upsets me a lot that the film didn’t get the nominations it deserves. But I’m afraid to say I wouldn’t know if I’d vote for it. The direction of Birdman, Boyhood, Foxcatcher and The Grand Budapest Hotel were definitely superior than Selma for me. That number 5 position is very tricky. I see the argument of racism, because there really should be more support for Ava and her movie in that category, especially considering it’s her first big film, but, yeah, I don’t know. I’d vote for Nightcrawler or Whiplash.
That Best Actor category was always meant to be a killer one. I didn’t like American Sniper, but damn, Bradley Cooper sure deserved that nomination. There were 10 nomination-worthy actors in that category, and I’m sorry, David Oweloyo was top 8, not top 5 (can’t rank that category plausibly), anyone that gets left out, it’s understandable.
When aren’t there some undeserving nominations and some undeserved snubs? Lots of good movies didn’t get one nomination, let alone a Best Picture nod. Congratulations to “Selma.” It joins a list of very distinguished nominees over the years.
PHANTOM and ART are absolutely right. Nobody is saying Oyelowo and DuVernay were stronger frontrunners and more critically acclaimed than Boyhood. But they certainly were stronger frontrunners and more critically acclaimed than Bradley Cooper (no precursors!) and Bennett Miller (no precursors!) among other nominees. In judging how the Academy will vote, one must go by precedent, and you’ve got to look at the precursors. Sure there are always some upsets, but why is it that they are almost always at the expense of minorities, people of color in general, women, gays, etc., in favor of less acclaimed white men, well-known in the industry, and in general, but when its not supposed to be there year. I love Laura Dern, but she really didn’t do much in Wild, other than give a nice performance that an accomplished actress is supposed to. But sorry, she wasn’t in the same league as Carmen Ejogo. And Robert Duvall is a great actor, but The Judge was a second tier film (at best) with a phoned in performance. Couldn’t they look past the usual old white man suspect and think about nominating Riv Ahmed or Tony Revolori? The point is, as Phantom said, some of these upsets were at the expense of perceived possible winners, and almost always in favor of popular white men. The pattern is just too damning to ignore. I would have thought by now everyone would have seen the Academy’s true colors with the Brokeback snub. People always make excuses for them, but with such a poor record, isn’t it time that more people take them to task? I am all for honoring the so-called best. Admittedly, that is not always readily apparent, but most of the time, they don’t even come close. If they were a little less conservative in politics and social causes, their record in rewarding the finest art would be significantly greater. To me, a perfect example is the fake-liberalism of rewarding the ok Driving Miss Daisy (black man servant) at the expense of not-even-nominated Do the Right Thing, now considered one of the 50 or so greatest American films, but also considered pretty darn great even in 1989 by the critics/precursors (Los Angeles Crix Best Picture, NY runner-up, etc.), yet there was that year’s worst snub…so they could nominate Dead Poet’s Society instead? C’mon.
I am appalled that Jake Gyllenhaal did not receive a nomination because he is in my view better than at least two of the ones nominated in that category. But of course no one cares because he’s another white male excluded in favor of other white males.
Larry
You missed my point entirely. The ones I mentioned shouldn’t have been nominated because they are black or female, they should have been nominated because up until the last minute the industry considered them some of the year’s best and that didn’t translate into Oscar love. We will never know why…that does not mean we can’t ask that question, though.
Johan
You also missed my point. I didn’t say Oyelowo and DuVernay were frontrunners, I said they SHOULD have been based on reviews alone, according to those the film is a modern masterpiece and the performance is one for the ages. On the other hand, Gone Girl was actually backed up by precursors for a BP nod and it didn’t happen. I’m not necessarily saying they were out to get the female movie star turned succesful producer, I’m saying they clearly had no trouble ignoring her while giving a BP nod to a male movie star. Yes, Wild was no BP contender but it was the kind of arthouse hit that was supposed to help her case with Gone Girl in BP. It didn’t. And make no mistake the Gone Girl BP snub WAS a big one.
Come on Phantom, this is an Oscarwatching site, we’re all somewhat versed in predicting Oscars. You’re saying DuVernay was a frontrunner over Linklater? Oyelowo over Redmayne and Keaton? You’re not fooling anyone on this site.
I also think you’re overestimating how much thought voters put into this if you think Gone Girl and Wild weren’t nominated because of Witherspoon as a producer. The whole voting body is allowed to vote for Best Picture, I’m sure the majority didn’t even know Witherspoon produced Gone Girl.
Like Sasha said its much bigger than Selma. America is undergoing turmoil re: grand jury failures in police matters, social inequities etc.. This is the most prolonged period of street protest since ironically the days of King. Then comes this move Selma and it ranks huge with critics. Labeled oscar frontrunner. Wow-a film directed by a AA woman and AA cast might win it all! Then the media releases hatchets on the film-a film btw which is seen with great pride by many young folks, minorities and others. The msm wont leave it alone. Then the academy snub Selma-ignoring its dir and actor. They nominate it for best pic and song-it felt like a token, one folks get bc have seen it before! This all at time when many feel the system no longer works. Your kid gets shot by a cop an d cant get justice. You cant vote if u cant pay the fee for voter id in texas etc. And in comes Selma-the film on everyone’s lips-hitting screens at the perfect emotive moment in the nation. And some of us feel after 12 yrs won last yr it can be done again. Then the door slammed shut this yr with all white actors nominated and women shut out. So Selma is more-and fast becoming a symbol of what is wrong on another level. Even Maureen Dowd in NYT tonight-the one who hit Lincoln over the CT vote in the film-is going after Selma. You beat up on something long enough in times like this u get mighty suspicious. Id expect Selma to be on the lips of all come feb 22nd-the most awkward awrd ceremony may ever see.. this snub is taking on a life on its and its no surprise..
Phantom, it is the point. Who says DuVernay had to be nominated? Because she is female and African American? The sentiment is that DuVernay would have become the first African American female director nominated. It sounds to me it is based on her gender and ethnicity rather than the merit of the film.
Sasha, it is bigger than just best picture nomination because there is a lack of best directing and acting nod? What about Paul Thomas Anderson? He wasn’t nominated for Best Directing, one can argue and say he was SNUBBED as well but nobody cares because he is not first black female. DGA is not racist, AMPAS is not racist for not nominating Duvernay, they nominated Selma for Best Picture, and obviously, that is not GOOD enough. For Lucas? He is just jealous because he has not won an Oscar.
I bet name recognition and familiarity are part of it. I imagine it’s far easier for Oscar voters (read: 94% white) to mark their ballots for past Oscar winners, like Robert Duvall and Meryl Streep, than The-Guy-Who-Played-Martin-Luther-King-and-Has-A-Name-I-Can’t-Pronounce. At least, David Oyelowo had received some precursor nominations from the Golden Globes and the Broadcast Film Critics Association. He should’ve been on their radar. But instead the Academy voted for Bradley Cooper and Laura Dern, neither of whom received any major precursor nods, but were already known to them as past Oscar nominees.
Eh..I agree that it’s political, but do you really think Selma would have been anything but nominated across the board had they not rushed the movie into the Oscar race without doing any guild campaigning? If they’d pulled the movie out of this season and put it into next, it might’ve cleaned up. But they rushed it, and it backfired.
Now is it stupid that a worthy movie can’t enter at the last second and not be considered? Yes. But I don’t view this as the Academy singling out Selma because they voted 12 Years a Slave last year. I see this as maybe the membership punishing the movie for not playing the same game as everyone else during the guild season. It’s stupid, but I don’t see it being about racial politics in this case.
Larry
That’s not the point.
Selma got two nominations when it was great enough to get 8 including Best Actor (a black man) and Best Director (a black woman). Both were supposed to be not only nominees but frontrunners in their respective categories.
Gone Girl got one nomination when it was great enough to get 6 including Best Picture (a white woman) and Best Adapted Screenplay (a white woman). Again, the screenwriter was not only supposed to be a nominee, but a frontrunner. And the producer, who also happens to be a movie star (Reese Witherspoon) delivered not one but TWO well-received moneymakers last year but the Academy opted against recognising her stellar work as a producer…yet they had no problem throwing a Best Picture nomination to a MALE movie star (Bradley Cooper).
Gugu Mbatha-Raw (a black woman) had the kind of brilliant breakthrough year Oscar dreams are made of, she had her Pride & Prejudice (=Belle) and her La Vie En Rose (=Beyond the Lights) all in one year. She is also a beautiful, classically trained (RADA) actress with impressive stage roots (Ophelia on Broadway etc.). She wasn’t even in the conversation. Both her films received good/great reviews…and both were not only headlined, but also written and directed by black women.
Bottom line : The problem isn’t that they weren’t nominated. The problem is that they were great enough to be seriously considered for the actual WIN and they didn’t even receive the nominations. The most shocking snubs : a black female director, a black male actor, a white female producer, a white female screenwriter. Black people and women. Coincidence ?
P.S. A point could be made that the Academy also discriminates against foreign language performances (duh) and as wonderful as it is that Cotillard made the cut, I can’t help but wonder that voters may have made that happen simply because their snobbish prejudice against comedic actresses with television background (triple red flag ?) is even bigger than their prejudice against the foreign performances.
George Lucas is just jealous because he hasn’t made a good movie since the 70’s. (Partial sarcasm)
Enough is enough. All the outrage is caused by Selma. Didn’t it get a best picture nomination????
It’s bigger than that.
I’m shocked that Lucas is not a member of the Academy. Anyway, good for him calling a spade a spade. Especially about the Oscars being a “political campaign” and not an artistic endeavor. Tru dat!
Who’s the anchor on Charlie Rose’s right? I don’t recognise her? ; )
Enough is enough. All the outrage is caused by Selma. Didn’t it get a best picture nomination????
George Lucas clearly knows the bias of Hollywood firsthand, especially with his experience on making ”Red Tails,” his 2012 salute to the heroic Tuskegee Airmen. It starred Cuba Gooding Jr. and David Oyelowo in a story about the World War II pilots, and was directed by Anthony Hemingway, a rare black man who got to head a big-budget movie. Even with Lucas’ muscle behind it, he had the hardest time getting it released. Lucas: ”It’s because it’s an all-black movie. There’s no major white roles in it at all…I showed it to all of [the studios] and they said no. We don’t know how to market a movie like this.”
Ultimately, Lucas put $58 millon of his money into the movie and spent another $35 million for its distribution.
The Oscars will probably have a majority black presenters to make up for not nominating Selma.