Interview: Stephen Chbosky on Writing and Directing Wonder

This past weekend saw Wonder reach the $109 million domestically, while currently enjoying an eighty-six percent score and being certified fresh on RottenTomatoes. Among other accolades, the film has been nominated for three Critics Choice Awards in recognition of Jacob Tremblay (Room) in the Best Young Actor/Actress category, Best Adapted Screenplay and Best Hair and Makeup. The film follows Auggie Pullman (Tremblay), a boy with facial differences caused by Treacher Collins Syndrome, as he and his parents (Julia Roberts and Owen Wilson) attempt to navigate his entering fifth grade, the first for which he will not be home-schooled. The film was co-written and directed by the multifaceted Stephen Chbosky, best known for writing the novel “The Perks of Being a Wallflower”, which he adapted into a screenplay that he also directed. For his work on the film, he earned a Writers Guild nomination for Best Adapted Screenplay and won the Independent Spirit Award for Best First Feature.

In celebration of Wonder’s ongoing success, I recently enjoyed an in-depth conversation with Chbosky. We discussed numerous aspects of making both films he directed, as well as his first screenwriting credit, the 2005 film adaptation of Rent, and his work on the live action Beauty and the Beast, 2017’s highest-grossing film thus far. Chbosky used Bruce Springsteen’s version of “Santa Claus is Coming to Town” in the movie to great effect, so I arrived at the interview wearing a Bruce Springsteen shirt in celebration of New Jersey’s favorite son. Chbosky said he knew we’d get along famously and we dove right in. Here’s what Chbosky shared with me about adapting two films based on best-selling books, working with Julia Roberts and Owen Wilson, and filming a movie that involves kids, dogs and Chewbacca.

Jackson Truax: Since we clearly share a love of Bruce Springsteen, let’s start there. Even though he didn’t write “Santa Claus is Coming to Town”, did you still get his blessing before using his version of the song in Wonder? To what extent were you involved in making that happen?

Stephen Chbosky: Alexandra Patsavas is our music supervisor. Amy Dunning works for Lionsgate [as Head of Music]. They just put it out there. From what I heard, Bruce Springsteen had seen at least that scene from the film. His version of “Santa Claus is Coming to Town” is so brilliant and so iconic. I still pinch myself that we got it.

JT: It can be such a struggle to get those clearances, or to get actors or crew of this caliber to sign onto any given movie. But it sounds like because of the book, in this case everybody really wanted to be involved. Was that your experience?

Chbosky: Yes. The book is very special and beloved. What’s interesting about the book is the fact that it has sold millions of copies, and yet every individual person that reads it feels like it just for them, or for their school or their family. So it’s universal and personal at the same time, which is great. The book paved the way for everybody. People from Julia Roberts on, everyone was into this story.

JT: Was that similar to your experience on The Perks of Being a Wallflower?

Chbosky: It was a slightly different group of people, but yes. With Perks, I know from personal experience how much the book has meant to people. Because I’ve met them over the years. I’ve received letters and emails. So it did feel like a similar experience. But with Wonder, I was one of those fans. So I didn’t have to be the author this time. I got to just be the fan. It was really fun.

JT: One of your first screenwriting credits was the film adaptation of Rent, which enthusiastically celebrated the legacy and spirit of the play. What were your biggest challenges in adapting it for the screen, especially as a piece of material with so many well-known songs and an ensemble cast?

Chbosky: The singular challenge of Rent was not having Jonathan Larson, his spirit, and his brilliance and his songwriting ability. The fact that he passed away before [off-Broadway] previews even, when normally the writer will look at it with an audience and keep working, that process didn’t happen. In terms of overcoming it, you do the best of your ability to look at what you believe he was intending. To figure out a way to address a couple of logical issues, but with the existing songs. As a screenwriter, it was very gratifying to live inside Jonathan Larson’s world and spirit for a year. I learned a lot about myself as an artist and as a person from the experience.

JT: That sounds like your first experience in taking an existing piece of material, and figuring out how to serve the existing audience, while opening it up to the size of an audience you need for a movie to be successful.

Chbosky: I’ve been working on that for a long time. With Perks, Beauty and the Beast, and now Wonder. As I’ve worked on my art and craft longer, the more I’ve learned certain techniques and certain aesthetics and way to approach, let’s say a book, to find the way to convey character very quickly but very specifically. Whereas an author might have three chapters to let you know who Summer is, I have ten seconds. So what are the best ten seconds I can possibly think of to convey this beautiful character? There are many techniques to do it, whether it’s through humor or through the right line [of dialogue]. I’ve been very fortunate to have been given this material. Wonder is my fourth adaptation of something that is beloved.

JT: To that end, The Perks of Being a Wallflower was so well-received. When you’re adapting your own material, do you have a greater sense of trying to preserve what it was people liked in the book?

Chbosky: No. You know what’s so funny? I had more freedom. Because Perks was my book, I felt complete freedom to be able to do a true adaptation. I didn’t keep anything if I felt it didn’t serve the movie. If I had to change it for these reasons, I changed it. If I felt like the way to cast it was slightly different than it was in the book, and it felt right, I did it. You look at one sequence that’s wonderful in the book, but feels maybe too emotional or too intense. And that particular tree, as beautiful as it might be, is ruining the forest. You get rid of the tree, and suddenly the forest is better, and you learn. That was really my entire school of adaptation. I’ve applied those lessons ever since.

JT: I’d be remiss not to mention that you have a co-writing credit on the highest grossing movies of the year so far, Beauty and the Beast. I know you were brought to write a new draft of an already-existing screenplay. I’d love to get a sense of what you brought to the script, and where your contribution is best felt in the final film.

Chbosky: The writer before me, Evan Spiliotopoulos, is a really great, imaginative world-builder. He had done some really cool things, like the curse on the servants. He took a little bit from the Broadway musical, then he took it to his logical conclusion.

JT: One of the things that almost the entire canon of Disney movies have been criticized for in the past is having a mother figure whose entire function to the plot is to be dead, often without any reason or other backstory. The new film handled the death of Belle’s mother beautifully. How much of that came from your work?

Chbosky: Some of it did. And some of it came from Evan. And [director] Bill [Condon] did a great job of bringing it all home. It was a real collaboration there. The idea about Belle’s mother dying in the plague came from Evan. My contribution, other than some dialogue in the sequence itself, was the idea of the book being the thing that transports them into Paris, into the past. Because that’s what led to their bond in the first place, that books can set you free. That you can travel in your mind with books. I loved creating that. In terms of my contributions to Beauty and the Beast, I would say, the second act with Gaston, where he actually goes with Maurice into the forest to save Belle, and then turns on him and leaves him for dead. In the original film, in the first and third act Gaston is very strong, and he just wasn’t in the second act very much. I thought, logically, if I’m trying to impress my future father-in-law, I’ll go along. So I just followed that. That was really fun to write. I loved creating some of the relationships among the servants. Like the idea that here’s this candle that can’t touch his love because he’ll burn her. I added that. And some of the dialogue. Like when Mrs. Potts says, “People say a lot of things in anger. It’s our choice whether or not to listen.”

JT: In the case of Wonder, to my knowledge Lionsgate had been developing this for a while before you became involved. Where was the script when you came in, and what did you bring to it?

Chbosky: The thing I’m proudest of is finding a way to create the multiple points of view that was true to the book. Finding a way to do that in a film landscape was very challenging and very gratifying. It had to be as clear as it could be for an eight-year-old, but at the same time not bore the grown-ups in the audience. That was tricky. Because I love the book so much, I tried to write in the style of R.J. Palacio. And then, to have written the line when Via says that her friend Miranda joked that her house “was like the earth. It revolved around the sun, not the daughter”. Or, talking about her mother’s drawings, “My mother has a great eye. I just wish that one time she’d use it to look at me”. I’m very proud of those lines. Because I felt that R.J. could have written them. In the book, there’s this beautiful sequence after Jack Will hits Julian; All of these letters and emails back-and-forth. You can feel the politics of that school. All of the parents backstabbing each other. It’s very interesting. You don’t have time in a movie to do that for ten minutes. So I said, “Let’s extend the fight. Then let’s have the letter of apology as a voiceover over the fight, as a way of showing violence and contrition at the same moment”. There are so many touches I’m proud of. But when I’m brought in as the last writer on something, it’s my job and pleasure to recognize and celebrate what my predecessors have done brilliantly. Jack Thorne and Steve Conrad have credit on the screenplay because they did great work on it. I thought my job was to acknowledge the parts that were working great, and then put it all together.

JT: Wonder feels like a movie about the incredible dignity these people find in being active members of a community that cares for each other. While the anti-bullying message in the film really resonates, it’s always as one of the main thematic points in your larger thesis. How did you find the balance, of finding how much bullying you wanted to depict earnestly, without it becoming the main focus of the film?

Chbosky: My approach for Perks and now for Wonder was to be as matter-of-fact about things as I possibly could. If you’re heavy-handed about things, the audience will see it coming a mile away. My job was to try as much as I could to simply dramatize these situations, get out while we we’re ahead, and let the audience almost finish your sentence for you. If I can invite the audience to draw their own conclusions, then those conclusions are authentic. R.J. Palacio said to me, literally three days ago, “It’s hard to hate somebody up close”. I don’t know if it’s hers or if she read it. But I love that. When I’m thinking about what natural empathy will do for you. You change points of view. You get to know Via. And then you get to know Jack Will. Then you get to know Miranda. And you get to know Mom and Dad. Which was an original contribution. Because the book doesn’t really do that. The book is a hundred percent from the kids. By the process of showing what everyone is going through, even in very quiet, very subtle ways, it’s very hard to hate the characters. That in of itself becomes the most profound expression of the theme, which is about choosing kindness. One of my favorite moments that I was able to add was for Julia Roberts’ character, Isabel Pullman. While we’re watching Auggie go through his first day at school, you cut away to this one little shot of Mom on her first day at school. Which is, she’s alone in the house where she’s taught her son for the last ten years. And now she’s in an empty space. She has to figure out her life now. That one shot is one of my proudest of contributions. I want children to say, “Mom, on my first day of school, what was it like for you?” That empathy, nothing’s more gratifying.

JT: Nate Pullman’s character arc is just as universal, but a lot more subtle. At the beginning of the school year, Isabel is emotionally ready to help navigate Auggie through it, but Dad really has to figure that out. Since you wanted to show more of the parents in the movie, how did you find what to add to Nate’s character and what his emotional journey would be?

Chbosky: I added a lot of Nate’s sense of humor. Because as a Dad, I know that humor is the best way through tough times. I would imagine that family had been through so much, that they’d have to have a sense of humor about it. And that Nate would be the perfect vessel for that. That was just a tonal approach. It just felt logical to me that Dad would be really funny. And Dad is funny in the book. I just expanded it. I love, and this is from the book, that Isabel was the one that had the idea of putting him in school. The clichéd thing would be that Dad wants to do it, and Mom is protective. R.J., being a Mom, she wanted the idea to be the mother’s. So if Nate’s reluctant, I wanted Nate to be impressed by his own son. He’s trying to keep the peace in his own home. But, in quiet ways, he’s tracking that his son got into a fight and won it. And that he’s made friends. And he’s genuinely impressed that his son has earned his respect as a young man. Maybe that’s just the Pittsburgh in me talking. But that’s a real rite of passage as a boy, to earn you father’s respect as a man. And I wanted to put it into Wonder.

JT: The other thing Nate’s arc really hits on is something that I think is so universal for dads, but not really discussed. Over the course of the movie, he’s the character who has to learn how to become vulnerable around his family, and figure out how to talk to his kids when their problems can’t be solved by making silly voices anymore. How much of that was in your vision of the movie, and how much of that did Owen Wilson bring to the character?

Chbosky: It was a combination of the two of us. Because he’s a father. He was bringing a lot of his personal experiences into it. I think he and I share a lot of similar approaches to fatherhood. It was very organic.

JT: You did a great job throughout the movie of building tension, but in ways that always felt very authentic in the moment. One of the best examples is when Isabel realizes she forgot her glasses. That ultimately made the whole scene so much more effective. Was that something you had scripted? Or did the actors bring that?

Chbosky: I wrote that moment into the script. There were a lot of thematic lines and moments that are all about sight. You can trace it from when Via says about “My mother has a great eye. I just wish that one time she’d use it to look at me”. Then the idea of borrowing her husband’s glasses was about, “Let me put on another set of eyes so I can look at my daughter”. I wrote it as a joke. I wasn’t heavy-handed about it. But that’s what it’s about thematically. Full credit to Julia Roberts for giving the glasses back at the end of the play. I didn’t write that. It was all her. You can see Owen laughing in the footage. Because he was genuinely surprised that she did that. Then later when Mandy Patinkin as the principle Mr. Tushman says, “Auggie can’t change the way he looks. So maybe we can change the way we see”. Then the final line of the movie, “If you really want to see what people are, all you have to do is look”. This is the entire theme of the movie, for me. This is one of my proudest contributions to the screenplay.

JT: One of the really effective through-lines in the film is when Auggie fantasizes about Star Wars characters interacting with him at school, most notably Chewbacca. While your Chewbacca wasn’t played by Peter Mayhew, Michael Alan Healy has played the role before. Are there certain actors that are allowed to play the character?

Chbosky: Yes, Michael’s licensed. He’s the official live event Chewbacca performer from Lucasfilm. There’s only one on the planet. And it’s him. I think for The Last Jedi it was Peter Mayhew sometimes, and there’s another guy. Michael’s the third. That’s what I understand.

JT: The film is very much set in New York, and the narrative engages with the city in significant ways. At the same time, the movie does maintain a very “Anytown, USA” feel. How did you find that balance, of really utilizing your setting while still making the story feel like it could have taken place anywhere?

Chbosky: For me, it was very personal. We shot most of the movie in Vancouver. We got three-and-a-half days in New York. I had lived in Brooklyn. So when we were shooting in Vancouver, I walked the island. I looked for streets and moments and places that felt like the New York City that I knew after living there for almost nine years. I would do that in the hopes that when we got our few days in New York I could tie it all together. People don’t realize how woodsy Brooklyn is. So those helicopter shots that I was able to do, to show just how many trees there are in Brooklyn. Then when we cut back to Vancouver it feels like the same place. Thematically, at the end of the day, whatever the exteriors are, they are exterior. Classrooms are classrooms. Gyms are gyms. Dodgeball is dodgeball. Wherever you went to school, we all have these places in common. We all have the class photo we look back on and laugh at our hair. We wanted it to feel like it could be anywhere. Because we wanted it be relatable for kids, and nostalgic for parents and grandparents. My hope is that a child will enjoy it as much as a parent or grandparent will, maybe for different reasons. So they can have conversations on the drive home, or in their living rooms if they’re watching it at home. And it can become a tool for parents to ask, “At your school, is there a kid like this? Is there a bully? Are you more like a Jack Will or a Julian? What about your friend?” Suddenly, conversations are happening that otherwise might not be happening. What’s better than that?

JT: One of the things that’s unique about this movie is that every day you probably had nine actors on the call sheet with speaking roles that were also minors. Because this meant you could only shoot so many hours a day, I read you had to shoot using up to three cameras at a time. What were the biggest challenges that presented?

Chobosky: Don Burgess, our Director of Photography, he’s a brilliant person. His resume speaks for itself. Forrest Gump, the first Spider-Man, The Muppets, Enchanted. His range is limitless. Don understood the challenges and how fast we needed to go. He was so accommodating to the schedule. It was a real film school for me. How he lit for three cameras at once, always putting the actors first, and always making the kids comfortable. He was a real artist and a true gentleman.

JT: Daisy, the family dog, becomes such an important character. But I read that you’re allergic to dogs. How did you direct the scenes with Daisy in them?

Chbosky: (laughs) I just took Claritin. It was no big deal. (Can’t stop laughing) No one’s ever asked me about being allergic to dogs before.

JT: It feels significant because the family dog becomes such an important part of Nate’s character arc. But it’s easy to envision a filmmaker feeling that with so many minors in the film and with so much material, the dog would be an easy and practical thing to excise. That would make even more sense with a filmmaker that’s allergic, so it’s interesting you kept it.

Chbosky: It’s funny. I think for some viewers, the dog might be a bridge too far. But it is a vital part of the book. And I would never – if it had been an original screenplay, I might have reconsidered it. But it was a beloved book and a beloved character in the book. So I couldn’t change it. You have to do it right.

JT: We’re getting to talk about Wonder today because it’s connected strongly with critics, and the audience response has been incredible. Since people have started seeing the movie, what piece of feedback has been the most meaningful to you?

Chbosky: The most important moment from the audience, for me, was an eleven-year-old girl with a facial difference right after the premiere. We knew her, because she had come to set. She had been one of our consultants, along with her family. She looked at me and said, “That’s my new favorite movie”. This little girl with a facial difference now has a movie to point to with her classmates or when she goes to a new school. So her classmates will now know, “Oh, you’re like Auggie Pullman”. Her surroundings are different. And maybe her internal feeling. I’ve heard from many kids who might have a facial difference, or another difference like Autism, who feel like they can be more heroic because Auggie is. There’s nothing better than that.