Liz Feldman On Further Expanding the Addictive ‘Dead To Me’ In Season 2

Dead To Me showrunner Liz Feldman and the rest of her creative team are currently riding a wave of love for the series’ critically acclaimed second season. The story of Jen (Christina Applegate) and Judy (Linda Cardellini) hiding lies and assorted criminal activities, Dead To Me captivates audiences with its female-centered storytelling and addictive cliffhangers. Season 2 managed to top the already strong Season 1 in nearly every way, and many Emmy prognosticators are predicting the Television Academy will respond similarly.

Awards possibilities aside, the popular reaction to Dead To Me season 2 is its own reward for showrunner Feldman. It’s especially sweet given the darker real-life origins of the show.

“I had just turned 40, and on the day I turned 40, my cousin died unexpectedly of a heart attack. He was 50, and at the same time, I was trying to get pregnant for the fifth year in a row,” Feldman explained. “It was just one loss after the next, and I was in a real place of grief.”

That emotional low point eventually made its way organically to what we know as Dead To Me. This story about loss allowed Feldman to express her inner self in ways she hadn’t before.

Here, Feldman talks to Awards Daily about the acclaimed Season 2 of Dead To Me. She talks about how much of her remains in the series and how enhancing a female presence in front of and behind the camera helps create a more authentic experience. And while Season 3 is still unconfirmed, we toss around one idea about who we’d like to see included as the Jen and Judy story continues.

Awards Daily: So, if the story of Dead To Me initially stemmed from a personal place of loss, then how much of you remains in the series?

Liz Feldman: It’s a great question. Initially, I would have said, ‘No, these women aren’t me at all. These are totally fictionalized characters.’ Prior to Dead To Me, I essentially made the lead character of whatever show I was writing an extension of myself. Even so far as to call them Liz or Lizzie – real creative. When I was coming up with the characters for Dead To Me, I really was like ‘This is fun because  for the first time I’m not making them versions of me.’ And then I got about halfway through writing the pilot, I realized, ‘Oh no, they’re both me.’ They represent my duality. Jen being tough and from Brooklyn and outspoken and strong and professional. Judy is this soft, kind-hearted, almost hippie. Truly, I have that dichotomy inside me. It actually become sort of easy for me to write both characters because I had to tap into that part of myself.

AD: Looking at Season 2, there is a stronger female presence behind the camera. Obviously, inclusivity is increasingly important in the modern television era, but how do you think that inclusivity enhances the story of Dead To Me?

LF: Well, from the get-go, we prioritized female directors and a majority female writers’ room. In Season 1, six of the eight writers were women, and four of the five directors were women. The one male who directed (Abe Sylvia) was a gay man. When moving into Season 2, I doubled down on the female perspective, and seven of my eight writers were women and all of the directors were women. It was very intentional. I am interested in telling as authentic a story as possible. Yes, there are twists and turns and fantastical elements, very much like life itself. So, it was important for me to tell the story through a female lens. I’ll quote my friend Tanya Saracho (Starz’s Vida), ‘No stories about us without us.’ I think that’s true. We’re telling a feminist tale with Dead To Me, so I need as many women in front of and behind the scenes as possible.

AD: So, looking at Judy and Jen are best friends that are complete polar opposites. Why do you think their friendship persists given all the odds against them?

LF: I think there’s an intangible thing sometimes between friends. I really believe in chemistry, and sometimes people come into your life at a moment when you actually might need that counterbalance. Judy comes into Jen’s life at a time when she feels incredibly isolated and alone with her grief. Grief is a squirrelly emotion because it’s very hard to know how to be there for someone in grief when you yourself are not. Judy sort of intrinsically knows how Jen feels. It’s a kind of trauma bonding.

The friendship that comes out of that is very genuine, and Jen eventually ends up being very much the person that Judy needs. Someone to empower her and lift her up. It also helps that they have beautiful chemistry. They make each other laugh. They don’t judge each other. Even though its based on a web of lies, they have a really true friendship.

AD: One of the things I love about Season 2 is Judy finding real happiness in a relationship with Michelle (Natalie Morales), but the focus of the relationship isn’t that it’s a same-sex relationship. She’s just celebrated for finding love. Was it a tricky decision to make to not take the opportunity to comment on the relationship and have it flow more organically?

LF: Yeah, you nailed it. It was incredibly deliberate on my part to never comment about the type of relationship this is. To never have Judy sit down with Jen and say, ‘I have something to tell you,’ as if she were about to deliver bad news. My experience of falling in love with another woman is entirely normal. I don’t have to sit down with anybody and lay out this crazy revelation. I just really wanted to show the relationship for what it was which is exactly what you said: a moment in Judy’s life where she finds happiness. Where she rediscovers joy and at a time when she really needs it. It’s not about the fact that they’re both women. It’s more about giving Judy something she really needs. It was certainly a discussion in the writers’ room, but I felt really strong about not needing to talk about it. It is what it is. It’s normal, and when something’s normal, you don’t have to explain it.

AD: Of course, that makes total sense. So, I did talk to James Marsden about Ben and the email he sent you asking to remain in the show. You then developed the twin concept. Were you at all concerned about reactions to that plot twist – that it might be seen as too ‘soapy?’

LF: [Laughs] Oh, I was extremely aware of the swing we were taking. But truly my desire to work with James and to bring him back as a new character on the show is just all a tribute to how talented and wonderful he is as a human being. Yes, I always judge an idea by how quickly it comes in and out of my head. Of course bringing in a twin is incredibly soapy and trope-y. It’s been done many times, but I felt there was an inherent challenge I couldn’t resist which was bringing in this very cliche thing but grounding it well enough to make it feel real and so intrinsic to the story that you forget that’s what we did. I knew that James was talented enough to carry that off. Of course, I had to check myself several times wondering if I was totally insane and maybe driving a stake into the heart of the show. Every time I would bring it up, everybody would laugh, which to me is always a good sign.

AD: One thing I noticed in Season 2 is that it opens up the theme of the impacts of motherhood on their children by introducing Judy’s mother (Katey Segal), Ben/Steve’s mother (Frances Conroy), and even Michelle’s mother. Is that a personal theme to you? 

LF: It is intrinsic to the show itself because, when we first meet Judy, she’s in grief after having multiple miscarriages. She’s sort of working through the loss of that and grappling with the reality that she may not become a mother. I think in Season 2, it’s actually a testament to how many women we have in the writers’ room. Not all of them are mothers, but certainly some are. I think partially it was all of our collective interest to further explore how Jen and Judy got to be the way they are. When we really go into that, you keep running into the mother. It’s developed organically that way as we explore their inner workings.

Also, we were all absolutely heartbroken and disturbed with what is going on with child separation at the border. A lot of our conversations in the writers’ room revolved around us trying to process that nightmare. In a way, our season became almost an allegory of what happens to people when you separate them from their parents.

AD: Wow, that are really beautiful take on the story. I hadn’t thought of it that way. Last question for you, I know you’re still processing Season 3 during this lock down, but I have to know if we’re going to see more Frances Conroy in Season 3. I need that in my life. 

LF: [Laughs] First of all, we wrote the part of Eileen for Frances without knowing if she’d be willing to do it. It’s just who we saw, and the fact that she agreed to do it and she was so fantastic and all kinds of lovely to work with… It was an absolute dream come true. I would love to see more of Frances Conroy both on screen and in my life.

Dead To Me is currently streaming on Netflix.